I would love to hear your thoughts on this.
My working definition of youth ministry “programs” has always simply been: The stuff you do.
It seems as if there is a fairly strong resistance to programs in many circles of youth ministry today. Yet, by my definition this means they are against doing stuff, which I know isn’t true.
So….is my working definition wrong?
Are youth pastors really against “doing stuff”?
If youth pastors aren’t against “doing stuff”, but they are against “programs”, what then are they doing, and what do they call it?
Is what they call it, just another word for “programs” or is it really something different, better, etc.?
19
Kurt Johnston leads the student ministries team at Saddleback Church in Southern California. His ministry of choice, however, is junior high, where he spends approximately 83.4% of his time. Kurt is also the founder of www.simplyjuniorhigh.com, and he writes, speaks and looks for opportunities to encourage other youth workers. He likes to surf, ride dirtbikes and hang out in coffee shops. He is married to Rachel, and they have two teenage children, Kayla and Cole
Latest Tweet
Scott Rubin is the Director of Elevate, the junior high ministry of Willow Creek Community Church near Chicago. He's mostly a middle school pastor, but he also writes some, speaks some, and blogs some. He's the co-author of the book Middle School Ministry, and a few other titles too. He likes sports, summer, his wife Lynette, his 3 sons, and often wishes that Lake Michigan was actually an ocean.
For me, I don’t find the word ‘programs’ offensive or evil. I think the word gets push back when it is viewed as an end in itself. i.e. A youth ministry’s purpose is the event and/or program itself. Or, at times, the ‘program’ begins to consume and rule you rather than it being one of many tools you use to reach youth with the hope of Jesus Christ. (Or you just continue running the same program without putting new thought into it….and it becomes the ministry….and it is just warm, milky toast – easy to digest but not satisfying.)
Our “programs” (and if it were up to me I would use the term ‘gathering points’ – that could be one-on-one up to a large gathering/event) should serve the underlying purpose God has for our ministries. So for me it is more a matter of focus, priority, and perspective on using any ‘program’ as one of the tools in your tool box in serving youth and creating environments and opportunities for them to experience the risen Christ.
yeah, i don’t think you’d find many youth workers completely opposed to “doing stuff.” i think the issue is more, as david commented, about the priorities, focus, and “place” of doing stuff. for many, for years, programs have become the point, rather than the teenagers themselves. of course, no one would actually SAY this, or even admit to it — but our behaviors and approaches often reveal our true values and thinking. really, it’s that whole “field of dreams” thinking — if we build it, they’ll come; and when they come, spiritual change will occur, because our programs are designed to produce “fruit”, and our measurements are self-perpetuating. in other words, we’ve gotten caught in this subtle thinking that a bunch of kids showing up must mean spiritual transformation (especially if we have “good” programming); and if getting a bunch of kids to show up is (in our thinking) the means to the spiritual end, then our focus becomes the program, not the participants (in this case, teenagers). given that most of our churches are functioning with some form of this thinking, it becomes a pretty difficult system to counter, even for the most well-intentioned.
I think the sticking point is to many people, programs means tradition or ritual and that seems to be juxtaposed to actual ministry which is doing stuff. By that analogy, programs = inaction and I just don’t think that is the case. However, I believe the problem is when you care more about perpetuating “your” programs and not willing to make a change for the sake of ministry. The “we have always done it this way” mentality. Many people have dropped using the word program but they still do the same stuff.
To me, program is nothing more than a systematic approach to doing ministry. Nothing more, nothing less. Program = plan in my book.
I’ve understood the program problem as “doing stuff just to do stuff.” It is doing those things that really have no purpose- except to have a program. It’s also the measurement of how many events you’re having and how many came there, but you’re not measuring the life change in students or the relationships that are building.
A great book to read is Simple Student Ministry by Eric Geieger and Jeff Borton. I love how they use their programs as part of a discipleship process. Again, we just don’t want to “do stuff just to do stuff.” Hope that helps!
I’m convinced that idea of not using the word “program” is just one of those ways that youth ministers can sound like they are relevant. It’s the same reason so many of them don’t call it “youth group” or don’t have “Bible School”. So often, youth ministry and youth ministers get focused on trends and one of the biggest trends is not doing “programs” because Jesus didn’t do programs, He did ministry. And if he was walking on earth today, he wouldn’t have a “youth group” he would have a “student ministry” and he wouldn’t do “Bible school” he would do “life groups” or “small groups” or “cell groups”. It’s all a bunch of myopic, semantically focused trends that really no teen (youth, student, kid, punk, zit-faced-goofball) really cares about. Who cares what you call it! If it’s loving God and loving young people, do it! Sorry for the soap box speech
I concur with many of the above comments. I have heard a definition of programs as a “come and see what we are doing” event. The downside is the lack of personalness. The opposite would be a “go and do” event (maybe small group bible study, a service project, mission trip). Our Jr. High group has both weekend programs and weekday small groups. There are some students who avoid the programs (too impersonal) and those who avoid the small group (too personal) but most seem to like having both.
Travis, would it be fair to also call your weekday small groups a program? Are programs always larger and less personal (an outreach program, a weekend program etc.) while smaller, more personal “stuff that you do” wouldn’t qualify as a program? Am I reading your thoughts correctly?
I totally hear the tension of being intentional with your programs, but as we talk about this, I’m wondering if any youth pastors are really scheduling stuff “just to schedule it,” or are we arguing against a straw man that doesn’t really exist. Certainly there’s the pressure to please the small segments of “higher-ups” in our churches who are looking for numbers as the primary indicator of health, but I just don’t know any youth pastor, paid or volunteer, big church or small, who is doing stuff just for the heck of it. Even guys and gals who are in churches with out-of-date structures that they don’t yet have the credits to abolish are making every effort to give new purpose to those old programs. I’ll admit that sometimes I’m not as intentional as I want to be, but even in the less-purposeful stuff, there’s some purpose to it. Does anyone here really know of a youth pastor or youth group first hand that fits the description we’re railing against? Or as Joe put it, is this an issue of cooler, hipper myopic (great word!) semantics?
Though FWIW, I love the “gathering points” terminology. It feels a lot cooler
Kurt – yes, I do think it would be fair to call my weekday small groups a program. Let me try again. When I hear program I think large, impersonal, maybe even slick. My weekday small groups is a couple adults with 8 or 10 students. Nothing large, impersonal or slick going on there. I guess that is the distinction I am trying to make. I guess in the end I have big programs and small programs.
i agree with program=stuff you do. I always laugh at youth speakers’ phobia of the word “program”. We get it…it’s not about the program it’s about the teens. Programs are still needed since teens don’t just magically all get together and we instantly have deep relationships with them.
Good thoughts. Sadly, I don’t think too many youth workers truly want their programs to be an “end” but would prefer them to be the means to an end, but feel pressure by church leaders for numbers, results etc. which then force the focus and the measurement of success to fall on the wrong part of ministry. I love programs (the stuff we do), and we have big, small, intimate, not-so-intimate, organic and organized programs….all of which are really only a way to connect students with each other, with a caring adult and with their creator.
Question: Sean suggested that we may be arguing against a straw man…an issue that really doesn’t exist. Is that fair? On the one hand I would agree: Certainly the # of youth workers doing stuff “just to do it” is a minority, but I have to think that part of the stuff many do is to appease the expectations of others which then may fall into the “just to do it” category because it doesn’t have a significant strategy other than pleasing the boss/parents/elders?
I think the “argument against programs” may often be the way of trying to safely/non-confrontationally express frustration with those expectations from others (boss/parents/elders). Trying to balance ‘what do I risk’, where is the line I don’t cross, how much can I let go of for tradition to pursue where God is beckoning me to lead? Striving to find that good fit in the place you are serving – where communication and respect/support/honest feedback/prayer and doing something together with a common purpose can be difficult to find but can be the most critical piece of the puzzle. Good stuff…..
I think the word has gotten a bad rap. I still think of them as programs, but the culture are our church does not like to use that word. To many programs seem shallow. Personally, it doesn’t really matter what you call them, someone will have a issue with the terminology. I like our “programs/events/activities/etc.” The content and gauging who they are for is more important than what you call them. Just my thoughts…
Our teens need and value continuity. Sooooo many of them have little sustainable routine at home that is meaningful that they value that at TreeHouse they now that we have substance, variety, creativity and fun in the familiar program format.
Great point, Scott. Who convinced us there’s something wrong with consistency and stability? The number of kids who are in consistent and stable families is so low – maybe our programs are providing the framework for consistent and stable relationships to develop . . . wait, isn’t that what most of y’all are saying?
And man do I LOVE the “envelope challenge” from morethandodgeball.com. I’ve been looking for a personal, advent activity, and this is perfect.
If you don’t have a clear vision, any “program” or “stuff you do” is pointless. Where are you going, why are you going there and what is the end result. Without those questions answered, the “Program” or “stuff you do” is pointless.
I tend to agree with most who have pointed out it seems to just depend on what you mean by the word. This emerging culture seems to have a greater emphasis on the uniqueness of each individual than ever before. Unfortunately, the word “program” happens to start with a “P” – so it made the catchphrase “Think People Not Programs” catchy. I put that phrase in the same category as “Its not a religion, its a relationship” we love things that start with the same letter that we can distinguish between, even if we have to paint one in a more unflattering light that it deserves.
Programs are important as long as they help you minister to your youth better. There needs to be a purpose behind them. I have found programs to be great opportunities for you to have shared experiences with your youth so that you can develop stronger relationships with them and spur them on to Christ.